Butterfly migration, ruffed grouse, and the porcupine

In this episode of the Wildtalk Podcast, Kelsey and Eric start off with a conversation about the monarch butterfly migration. That's followed up with an overview of the ruffed grouse, before wrapping things up with a discussion about the porcupine. 

Episode Hosts: Kelsey Beatty and Eric Hilliard
Producer/editor: Eric Hilliard

• All things habitat
  • Michigan.gov/Monarchs
  • Growing milkweeds for monarch butterflies
• All things feathers
  • Ruffed grouse
  • Video: Ruffed grouse drumming
  • Grouse Enhanced Management Sites (GEMS)
• All things fur
  • North American porcupine

Questions or comments about the show? Contact the DNR Wildlife Division at 517-284-9453 (WILD) or email dnr-wildlife@michigan.gov.

Transcript

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Announcer
You know what that sound means. It's time for the Michigan DNR's WildTalk podcast. Welcome to the WildTalk Podcast, where representatives from the DNR Wildlife Division chew the fat and shoot the scat about all things habitat, feathers and fur. With insights, interviews and your questions answered on the air, you'll get a better picture of what's happening in the world of wildlife here in the great state of Michigan.

Kelsey
Hello everyone, and welcome to the WildTalk podcast. This is your new host, Kelsey Beatty. And of course, I'm joined with my awesome co-host Eric Hilliard.

Eric
I'm glad that you think I'm awesome.

Kelsey
Well, yeah. And to add on to that, you also hired me back in 2015.

Eric
Wow.

Kelsey
Yeah.

Eric
No kidding. What a coincidence.

Kelsey
I know you, you seem to pick quite a few good people.

Eric
Yeah, I would concur. Every person I have ever hired has turned out to be great. As far as I know, I'm trying to think if there's anybody that has not, no I'm a pretty good judge of character. So I hired you in 2015 as a student assistant. Obviously, you're not a student assistant anymore. Why don't you kind of start there and give our listeners sort of your origin story?

Kelsey
Yeah. So, like you said, you and our old host, Hannah Schauer again, another great character pick hired me in 2015. And from there I worked in what was the public outreach and engagement unit for a few years as a student, as I went to Lansing Community College and Michigan State, and then from there I got a student assistant position with our policy and regulations unit, where I worked under the fur bear specialist and the upland game bird specialist. So all of your different critters ruffed grouse, turkeys, woodcock, all of those birds. And then from there, I went out and did some field work at our Rose Lake field office for a summer, which was interesting. I definitely have some stories from that and then from the field, I went to our marketing and outreach division, so that's within the department, but a different division.

Eric
You left wildlife?

Kelsey
I did. I did.

Eric
You traitor.

Kelsey
Yep, I worked in...

Eric
No, we all get along here, folks, across divisions. It's not it's not like that.

Kelsey
I worked in our licensing and customer service section. Well, marketing and outreach is customer service section for a year and a half where I answered phones, worked with license holders, making sure they were all set for the hunting and fishing seasons. And then I returned back to wildlife and ended up back with our policy and regulations unit, where I've been since September of 2018, full time. And there I work on the wildlife regulations and our limited license hunt drawings. So it's full circle.

Eric
Yeah, I will say that I am super stoked that you decided to leave the marketing and outreach division to come back to the Wildlife Division, and even though you are not working with the design, what is now the design and communications unit where you started as a student assistant. We do work together a lot, particularly on the regulations.

Kelsey
Yes, the regulations summaries, we're sort of our two units work hand in hand a lot on a lot of that stuff.

Eric
So yeah, couldn't have one without the other, that's for sure.

Speaker 1
Yeah. I remember when you came back to the policy and regs unit, you know, I was like, ahhh yes.

Kelsey
You aren't like, oh nooo.

Eric
I said, oh, she's back. No, it wasn't anything like that at all. Super stoked to to have you back even if it wasn't within our unit. I remember when your supervisor said you were coming back. I was like, that's a really good pick.

Kelsey
That seems to be the theme.

Eric
Yeah, we only picked the best people here in the wildlife division.

Kelsey
And so during that stint, as Rachel had mentioned in August podcast, we went to Michigan State together. So I graduated from Michigan State with a fisheries and wildlife degree with a concentration in wildlife biology and management. So wildlife is my thing. It's always been top priority looking at critters and.

Eric
Flipping over rocks.

Kelsey
Oh, 100%. The number of times I got poison ivy as a kid and as an adult. Like looking for salamanders is very high.

Eric
How many ticks have you had to remove in your life?

Kelsey
I have only been bitten twice.

Eric
Oh, that's actually not too bad.

Kelsey
Yes, I am a very big proponent of tick checks. So yeah, every time you're outside.

Eric
I the only time. So I've been pretty fortunate. My one daughter had one embedded in the top of her head one time. That was pretty engorged that I had to remove. I'm like, how did you even get this tick? And why did it take you so long to even realize it was there?

Kelsey
Yeah, definitely got to watch out for those little buggers.

Eric
And so and so you're outdoorsy, you wildlife watching, obviously, but also hunting. I know we were just talking about the fact that you're going to be doing some deer hunting, and you're going to be doing some scouting here coming up.

Kelsey
Yeah. So I'm very active in the Michigan outdoors since a very young age. I've been, you know, following dad and grandparents around in the woods and deer hunting ranks up there very high in my book. So that is my main focus. But I also love squirrel hunting.

Eric
Really?

Kelsey
Yes, squirrel hunting is one of my favorite activities.

Eric
Do you have a squirrel dog or no?

Kelsey
I do not. So I'm a sit and wait squirrel hunter.

Eric
Okay.

Kelsey
I also turkey hunt in the spring and I dabble in waterfowl hunting.

Eric
Okay.

Kelsey
Mostly goose hunting, but have been duck hunting. I've visited one of our managed waterfowl areas, the Harsen's island unit.

Eric
That's a fun unit.

Kelsey
Yeah, that was really awesome. And when it's not a hunting season, you can usually find me outside hiking or camping or on the water fishing.

Eric
So that's how both Rachel and I knew that you would be perfect to take over this host role.

Kelsey
Yeah, I'm pretty excited. I was kind of shocked when you approached me originally. I thought you were just going to ask if I wanted to be on an episode, and here I am in the host chair, so that was definitely not what I was expecting.

Eric
So what was more of a shock? Was it that Rachel was leaving or that you were going to be the new host?

Kelsey
Um both? I was definitely surprised that Rachel was, you know, taking a new path, but excited for her. But the being the host of a whole podcast, award winning multi-season podcast.

Eric
Obviously the pressure is just on your shoulders, the weight of the entire world.

Kelsey
Yes.

Eric
The universe hangs in the balance as to whether or not you can do the show. I of course have complete and total confidence in you, so I'm not worried at all.

Kelsey
Well, hopefully it goes well. And it was also interesting having to pick topics I didn't realize how, you know, interesting that would be. We have so much wildlife and awesome critters in habitats here in Michigan. So it took me a while to figure out what I wanted to chat about this first episode, but I think it's going to be a pretty awesome lineup.

Eric
Yeah, well, I mean, think about it too. We're now we're almost done with our ninth season heading into season ten, so maybe just plan out the next decade of content and we should be good to go.

Kelsey
Yeah, I'll just add that to my list.

Eric
All right. Well, before we get to the next decade of content. What do you have lined up for today?

Kelsey
First, we'll be talking about the mighty monarch migration and milkweed for all things habitat. And then we're going to chat about the ruffed grouse and a critter that we have not featured on the podcast.

Eric
Ever?

Kelsey
Ever. I searched all of the episodes, and the North American porcupine has never come up.

Eric
That's honestly one of my favorite critters growing up in the woods of Northern Michigan, and occasionally running across one, just out stomping around was always a super huge highlight because they're so slow moving, right?

Kelsey
I was going to say..

Eric
They're not fast.

Kelsey
I don't think they stomp. I would say they waddle.

Eric
No, no. When I was stomping around out in the woods, I would come across them. Yeah, they just kind of like waddle real slow and they're like, oh, shoot, there's a thing. Let me show my quills and walk as slowly as I can to this tree that I'm going to climb to get away from whatever this thing is. And so it was just always cool. Like I never messed with them or anything other than just to just, like, watch them. And there's such a cool critter.

Kelsey
Very cool.

Eric
I have known some people, though, whose dogs have done a little bit more than just watch them, and it's not a pretty sight.

Kelsey
No, and we'll chat about the quills and how all of that works. So it should be interesting. And of course, we'll give our listeners a chance to win a WildTalk podcast mug. But before we get into the show, here's a word from our warblers.

Speaker
Hey, Michigan drivers, the little bird told me your license plate can do more than just tag your car. The wildlife habitat plate featuring the iconic Kirtland's Warbler, helps protect Michigan's non-game fish and wildlife through the Non Game Fish and Wildlife Trust Fund. But hurry, this plate is changing soon. Want to keep the warbler flying? You can even get one as a collector's item. No car required. Support Michigan's wildlife and get your plate before this bird flies away. Visit Michigan.gov/SOS.

Kelsey
Autumn is my favorite time of year.

Eric
Honestly, it's kind of mine as well. I like the change of the season.

Kelsey
I like the change in weather. Not quite cold and snowy, but those cold, foggy mornings.

Eric
Yeah, you wake up and you're like, do I wear long johns today or no?

Kelsey
Yeah. It's kind of crazy to be headed into autumn and then start thinking about spring and summer landscaping, but right now is a perfect time to start thinking about your pollinator habitat and the different plants that you want for spring and summer. So a lot of your stores and retailers will have their perennials on sale right now, so you can get them half off. They might look half dead, but you can get some good deals on all different kinds of awesome plants for different pollinators, including the monarch butterfly.

Eric
You know, it's funny, I saw far fewer pollinators in my garden this year than I did last year. And I'm like, was it my garden that they just didn't like this year for whatever reason? Or did they just all go away?

Kelsey
It's a great question.

Eric
I may never know. Yeah, but maybe I should go take advantage of some of these 50% off deals and plant some new stuff and see what I can attract in.

Kelsey
So I did that a few years ago. I found some milkweed species. So it's called butterfly weed. And it is a native perennial here in Michigan. Bright orange, beautiful flowers, looks great in the landscaping and the monarchs love it. So I planted a few of those a few years ago, and I've had multiple monarch caterpillars munching away at the leaves, and they are great for both pollinators. And they look cool.

Eric
Yeah, the orange must like there must be something with their eyeballs that really they hone in on it, right?

Kelsey
Are butterflies colorblind?

Eric
I don't know, let's google it. There you go.

Kelsey
So monarchs do see color, and they are also bright orange and have the distinct black striping, which tells a lot of other animals. They are not very tasty, and that is from the milkweed that they eat.

Eric
I wonder if they look at the flowering on that milkweed and they think it's other monarchs at first, because it's kind of like a from a distance, right? If I don't have my glasses on and stuff is kind of fuzzy, I'm like, oh, what is that over there? And I think it's maybe something. And then I get a little bit closer, like, oh, never mind.

Kelsey
It's a flower.

Eric
It's a bag. It's an empty bag on the ground or whatever it happens to be. I wonder if they looked at it. Oh, and they go down. They're like, oh, it's not another monarch to hang out with, but, dinner.

Kelsey
Yeah. Nice snack. Yeah. Maybe lay a few eggs for the next generation. So yeah. Heading out and grabbing some different plants for next season is always a great way to help with pollinators. And you can do little things like that in your backyard to help them out. The milkweed species, either common milkweed, swamp milkweed, or this butterfly weed are all good options, and the flowers help the adults with their migration so they actually get to overwinter in Mexico.

Eric
I wish I could overwinter in Mexico.

Kelsey
Yeah, same. Like I said, autumn is great. Winter is a little questionable.

Eric
It's good, it's good in small doses.

Kelsey
Yep.

Eric
I say as we both spend probably pretty much all of our lives in Michigan winters.

Kelsey
100%. Yes. We're like, oh man, snow. But so the monarchs dip out actually around this time of year. So September is peak migration for the eastern monarch, which is what we have here in Michigan. So they're going to be moving kind of in masses down, heading towards Mexico for their overwintering habitat. And in order to do that, they have a very interesting life cycle. So I'm sure we're all familiar with egg is laid, caterpillar emerges, they make their chrysalis and then turn into a butterfly. But the monarch..

Eric
Yeah, we've all read the tiny caterpillar, right?

Kelsey
Yeah. These caterpillars are a little bit different than those ones. So they actually have multiple generations within a year. So the monarchs that migrate down to Mexico, they are actually the same ones that return, maybe not quite all the way to Michigan, but they make a journey north back in the spring and they are different animal altogether. So your basic caterpillar usually lives 4 to 6 weeks, so it does its whole thing in 4 to 6 weeks, from egg to chrysalis.

Eric
That's pretty fast growth, especially when you look at the size of some of the caterpillars.

Kelsey
Yes. Yeah. All that milkweed, it bulks them up. So..

Erics
They're there in front of the mirror, like the old milk commercials from the 80s.

Kelsey
Got milk? They kind of do their whole thing, and then the whole cycle starts back over. So the adult butterflies reproduce again and lay more eggs. And the eastern population usually does about five generations in a summer.

Eric
Wow. So it's literally egg laid, they hatch, 4 to 6 weeks later, chrysalis. They emerge and they immediately start reproducing again.

Kelsey
Yep. Except for the final generation of the season. Well, some people call them the super generation. Some people call them the migratory generation. So these monarchs are the ones that will make the trip south and then north again in the spring.

Eric
So were the other ones already dead at that point?

Kelsey
Yeah.

Eric
Wow.

Kelsey
Yeah.

Eric
Talk about living your life in fast times and wow. I was just thinking that's like, oh, yeah, there's multiple generations born and they're all kind of going down together at the end. But you're telling me Michigan is a monarch graveyard for like four generations, and then the other ones go down, and then I'm assuming they must be reproducing down in Mexico, too?

Kelsey
Yeah. So when I was doing my research, the timing on that was kind of all over the place in terms of are they reproducing and breeding down in Mexico and then flying north, or is it occurring they leave Mexico. Why north reproduce and then continue from there. But yes, so that occurs in the spring after they've overwintered, and that the first couple generations, their only goal is reproduction and getting the next generation going. But this super generation, they have to do that 3,000 mile flight, which I mean, being on a plane for that long would not be fun, I couldn't imagine.

Eric
I mean, I've been in some fairly long flights before and yeah, your legs can get even in the most comfortable of seating. You can get kind of uncomfortable really easily.

Kelsey
Imagine flapping little wings the entire way. So that being said, these butterflies are built different than their predecessors. So their body, when they are in the chrysalis, they emerge larger than the other adults that were in previous generations.

Eric
So like hulk monarchs.

Kelsey
Yes.

Eric
We should start calling them that rather than the the. What did you say they call them?

Kelsey
The super generation.

Eric
The super? Yeah. These are the hulk? Yes, the hulk generation.

Kelsey
Except they're orange, not green.

Eric
Yes. But they're green as caterpillar.

Kelsey
Yeah. And the chrysalis is green. So.

Eric
Yeah. So they do they, they go green and then they emerge.

Kelsey
Yes.

Eric
Hulked out but a different color.

Kelsey
Yep.

Eric
You heard you heard it here first, folks. Hulk generation of monarchs.

Kelsey
Yes. And along those same lines. So instead of, you know, having the mindset of we need to reproduce to lay more eggs, this generation is all set on their journey south. So that means they actually reserve fat in their abdomen, which is really weird to think of a butterfly being.

Eric
Like reserving fat?

Kelsey
Yeah.

Eric
Got to bulk up like a bear going into hibernation.

Kelsey
Yeah, exactly. So they but all of their energy into building these fat reserves to make the journey. And it's very critical to have those pollinator habitats along the way because they feed on the nectar of those flowering plants to kind of help them make that journey.

Eric
Make the journey. Lay some eggs and immediately drop dead.

Kelsey
Yeah. Yes.

Eric
I'm glad I'm not a monarch butterfly. Just saying. Just putting it out there.

Kelsey
Yes. Just for your knowledge, instead of 4 to 6 weeks, the super generation can live up to nine months.

Eric
Wow, that is the hulk generation. Yeah. So, like, what is that in human years? Right. So if a standard monarch lives 4 to 6 weeks and you kind of map that onto 80 human years, you're probably looking at somewhere close to 600 years or something like that for the super generation.

Kelsey
Sounds about right.

Eric
So it'd be like some of us living to be 80 and then, you know, other ones that are going to walk across the United States or something like that, living 600 years to make the journey. Yeah, that's that's kind of crazy. And then you think about the actual distance that they travel is, you know, we could walk across the United States and far less time than 600 years. Like, how far could we actually walk in 600 years?

Kelsey
You need some really good shoes.

Eric
Yes. Either that or specially adapted feet that are just very calloused and prepared for that journey.

Kelsey
Or grow wings.

Eric
Or grow wings. Exactly.

Kelsey
So yeah, whether you are headed to a store to check out their perennial sales, or you're looking to harvest some of your own milkweed seeds, which if you do that, you'll want to remember milkweed requires a period of cold and wet seasonality. So if you store milkweed seeds inside, they will not germinate in the spring. So if you are looking to harvest your own milkweed seeds, just remember to make sure they're cold where you plant them.

Speaker
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*Transition music

Kelsey
Have you ever been out in the woods and heard a lawnmower trying to start up?

Eric
Not to my knowledge.

Kelsey
So I also thought it was pretty weird, but I kept hearing the sound and lo and behold, it was a Ruffed grouse trying to drum up.

Eric
That makes much more sense than somebody trying to start a lawnmower in the forest.

Kelsey
Definitely. So this drumming noise I was hearing, it was from a plump, medium sized bird from the order Galliformes, which is a group of birds that are quote unquote chicken like. So we are talking about the forest chicken today.

Eric
Yes, the Ruffed grouse, the forest chicken. And I can attest as someone who has enjoyed forest chicken, it is honestly my favorite game bird meat. Really probably my favorite game meat overall.

Kelsey
So it lives up to its expectations then?

Eric
I think. So, yeah, you don't even need 11 herbs and spices to make them tasty.

Kelsey
Just some butter?

Eric
Some butter, a little salt, little pepper and it's good to go. Yeah.

Kelsey
So these birds are like most other forest birds, brown or various shades of brown, but they have very intricately barred and spotted feathers, which make them very well camouflaged on the forest floor and within the trees where you might find them. So maybe instead of saying finding a needle in a haystack, we should be saying finding a Ruffed grouse in an early successional forest.

Eric
It's a bit more of a mouthful, I think. Yeah, but I mean, truth be told, I was had a very keen eye for Ruffed grouse as a child. You know, talking age seven eight, I could spot Ruffed grouse like you would not believe, just on the forest floor. I could pick them out at a distance.

Kelsey
But have you ever been scared by one when you accidentally almost step on it and flushes from underfoot?

Eric
Yes, we were at a GEMS location. This is probably a good a while ago now, maybe ten years ago, and I was out doing some filming out there and one flushed up and yeah, kind of kind of startled us because we really hadn't kicked a whole lot off that day. A couple of woodcock earlier in the morning and then hadn't really seen anything for a while, and then it just came out of nowhere.

Kelsey
So in addition to its brown feathers with those bars and spots, it also has a fancy neck ruffle.

Eric
Ruffle. Yeah.

Kelsey
Yeah, just like the elite of the 16th century, which is kind of what it was named after, because it looks like a collar that they used to wear back in the day as what they would call fashion.

Eric
Yeah, kind of like like I wear around the office here.

Kelsey
Yeah. Yep. That exact one.

Eric
Yeah.

Kelsey
Every Wednesday. And another adaptation that they have is they in the winter they grow. They almost look like combs their feathers on their feet grow longer. And it's believed to be essentially a built in snowshoe when they're plodding along in the winter on top of the snow, they don't fall through quite as easy.

Eric
Yeah, they're kind of hobbit like in that regard. Only instead of hairy feet. It's, you know, feathery feet. Yeah.

Kelsey
Yes.

Eric
I'm sure that makes them very fleet of foot.

Kelsey
Definitely. So when they are walking around on the snow, another adaptation they have for the winter is they like to burrow into the snow.

Eric
Which is weird. Right?

Kelsey
Right. So you're thinking, you know, this forest chicken should be, you know, up in the trees, but they actually, in the wintertime, like to burrow into the snow as kind of a little snow nest, which can be quite frightening when you're doing your own snowshoeing and happen upon a buried grouse.

Eric
Have you done that?

Kelsey
I have not. I have snowshoed, but I have not come across the grouse. But I've heard it is very explosive.

Eric
Kind of like almost Night of the Living Dead. But there's a bird bursting forward from the ground, and it was not there a second ago.

Kelsey
So these Ruffed grouse, they like to live in forested interiors. So you're looking at your aspen, spruce, pine, oak and hickory. But they also like the interspersed openings within those forests. And they are mostly herbivores. So they're eating on those plants. A lot of the twigs, leaves, berries in the fall, they're looking at those acorns just like many of our other game species. They like those acorns, and the chicks are the ones that are usually the insect eaters. So the chicks, when they're really young, those are the animals that need those protein packed prey species.

Eric
So I remember as a kid, whenever we would clean Ruffed grouse, we would always kind of kind of like like a little Christmas or birthday gift, right? Like, oh, I wonder if we open up the gizzard, what we'll find, like, a little exciting. What? What are those little things that kids open up these days? But anyhow, it was sort of like one of those moments be like, oh, what are we going to what are we going to find? And we always found gravel from a quarry and berries like it was the same thing every time. Interesting. Right. Because they're eating that gravel to help digest and everything like that. But just a unique thing as a kid you're like, oh, got quarry stones and berries again.

Kelsey
Yeah. So fun fact about that is the Ruffed grouse can actually digest bitter plants that are usually toxic to most other birds, such as Quaking aspen. They eat a lot of Quaking aspen as a major food source in the winter. So as the temperatures begin to drop here in Michigan, make sure you're keeping a lookout for the Ruffed grouse, either in the brush, in the trees, or underfoot in the snow. I got attacked by a Ruffed grouse once.

Eric
Like literally attacked?

Kelsey
I guess attacked is a strong word. Maybe aggressively approached would be a better term for it. We were hiking in Seney National Wildlife Refuge and we were off on a two track that was a trail, but not a heavily used trail. So the grass was very tall, not paying too much attention. It was mid-June at the time and we were walking along, checking for ticks as we went. Because tall grass, you're going to find ticks.

Eric
Yep.

Kelsey
And I looked up along the two track and I saw what I thought was a chipmunk kind of scurry across the trail. I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then I saw three more and I was like, chipmunks don't run in packs. That's really odd. And before I could kind of realize that they were chicks, not chipmunks. What I thought was a giant raccoon came running out of the grass right at us. Well, of course, the raccoon turned out to be.

Eric
Like a rabid raccoon, right?

Kelsey
So turned out to be a mother Ruffed grouse and her chicks had ran across the trail in front of us, and she was in protection mode. So she had her wings all puffed up. Her tail was puffed up, she was looking as big and scary as possible, and she got maybe ten yards from us and realized we were not going anywhere. So then she switched tactics and kind of started flopping around, acting like her wing was broke and squawking and trying to direct the attention away from her chicks. And so we walked on past her as she made her commotion and made her feel like, yes, she did in fact...

Eric
She did her job.

Kelsey
She did her job. We did not harm the chicks, so that was quite an experience.

Eric
Nice. Now, I've not been attacked by Ruffed grouse, but I was up near Wolverine a few years ago, and there were a couple of Ruffed grouse that were fighting, and that was first. I hadn't seen Ruffed grouse fight each other before. So you had one that wanted to fight you, right? I just saw a little bit of bird on bird violence, really.

Kelsey
What time of year was that?

Eric
Oh, it was actually, I want to say it was getting close to fall.

Kelsey
Okay.

Eric
Which was a little surprising. Like, I wouldn't necessarily I mean, I'm not a obviously I don't have the biology background that you do, but I was like, oh, that's weird. Like, I wonder why they're fighting now. Like I could see maybe fighting over a drumming log or something in the spring, but.

Kelsey
Right. Yeah. So that's what I was going to ask was if it was in the spring, because that's when they're drumming and kind of making those territories trying to attract the females. So it's interesting that you would have heard it in the fall, except there is especially here in Michigan, there's actually a second peak of drumming activity in the autumn, usually around the autumn equinox. So that's coming up here at the end of September. So you might actually see more of that behavior around this time of year. And you might hear that drumming a little bit more as, as the daylight kind of daylight temperature starts to match the springtime temperatures in daylight that we were talking about at the beginning of the podcast, you kind of get like a reflection of that springtime behavior.

Eric
Ghost spring.

Kelsey
Yes.

Eric
Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. I would bet that that's probably the case then.

Kelsey
And do you know what makes that drumming noise?

Eric
A brand new set of drums?

Kelsey
No, they are not in their basements rocking out. They actually create when they're displaying for females or practicing. So juveniles obviously have to practice drumming because it's quite a maneuver. They are creating air pockets with their wings. And that what I think sounds like a lawnmower is actually them releasing those air pockets. And so it creates like a mini sonic boom.

Eric
Kind of like if you make fart noises with your armpits and your hands. But you could do it super fast.

Kelsey
Yeah, like 50 times in 10 seconds fast.

Eric
Yeah. I don't I don't think I can go that fast.

Kelsey
Yeah. So it's definitely an interesting noise. And you know, when you're heading out this fall, either hiking or out hunting, you might start to hear some drumming again around that autumn equinox.

Eric
Yeah. And we can put a link in the show notes to a cool YouTube video of a ruffed grouse drumming on a log. And these are ground nesting birds, right?

Kelsey
Yeah. So they actually create bowl shaped nests on the ground made of hollowed out depressions that they put leaves, and sometimes they even pluck their feathers out and kind of make like a feather pillow for the eggs with their own feathers. But it's nothing fancy, and it's usually pretty minimalist in terms of like when you compare it to like a robin nest. That's a full stick built nest.

Eric
Yeah, that's where that camouflage probably comes in super handy.

Kelsey
Yeah. If they're just chilling there on the ground, like we said, you're not going to see them until you are there.

Eric
And then you might have a heart attack. But please don't.

Kelsey
Yes. Keep a watchful eye out for those Ruffed grouse.

Speaker
3,300 miles of Great Lakes shoreline, 11,000 inland lakes. 56,000 miles of rivers and streams. Fish? Too many to count. All you need to do is grab your gear, buy your fishing license and get out there. Get your Michigan fishing license in store, in the Michigan DNR Hunt Fish app, or online at michigan.gov/dnrlicenses.

*Transition music

Kelsey
So up next, we're talking about one of Michigan's most prickly mammals, the North American porcupine. And I cannot believe you guys have never talked about these critters.

Eric
I'm honestly a little shocked myself that we have not talked about porcupines because I love porcupines. They're so cool.

Kelsey
Yeah, and they waddle around in Michigan's forests. We even have a state park named after him. Porcupine Mountain Wilderness State Park.

Eric
Also known as the Porky's, because oftentimes people pronounce porcupine as porcupine. Yes, like like Porky Pig. But in the pine.

Kelsey
Yes, they. The state park was actually named because the peaks looked like a crouched woodland porcupine. The porcupine is the second largest rodent in North America and Michigan, weighing in at up to around 30 pounds. And they're only outsized by the critter from our mug me question from last episode. So I will not give that away.

Eric
Yes, we have to keep that a secret until we arrive at the mug me segment.

Kelsey
But so the porcupine is a rodent and they have dark brown fur with black and yellow bands kind of on their guard hairs. And they also have a black line that runs down their backs and tails, which can be kind of hard to see for us. But it's actually believed that these black and white color markings are because they're nocturnal critters, meaning there waddling around mostly at night. And these black and white markings alert their mostly color blind, nocturnal predators that they are, in fact a dangerous prey species.

Eric
And one of the interesting things, and I just looked this up right, because I had this question of whether or not that would be the case. Like predators, being able to see these quills more easily is I wonder if they would show up really well with a black light. And in fact, I find out that yes, they do fluoresce a nice bright bluish white, or sometimes a pale yellowish green, depending on the animal. And that is kind of cool.

Kelsey
Yes. So they glow in the dark.

Eric
Yeah. Glow in the dark animal. Yes. Well, glowing the dark with a black light.

Kelsey
Or if you're a nocturnal predator.

Eric
Yeah. I would imagine on the night of like a full moon, they would probably show up pretty good as well. And especially if you're a nocturnal predator, your eyesight is already a little bit different. Anyways, it probably stands out pretty good to you.

Kelsey
And they do not have any quills on their bellies, so they're soft on their bellies. But I still would not recommend.

Eric
Trying to scratch their belly like a dog.

Kelsey
I would not recommend.

Eric
Yeah, it's probably worse than trying to scratch a cat's belly.

Kelsey
Yes, and when they are threatened, porcupine will try to use other scare tactics, such as chattering their very large rodent teeth, or they give off a smelly odor to deter predators because, you know, expending quills is expensive, right? So they do grow back, but it takes time. So those quills, which the porcupine is the only mammal in North America to have quills. So that's pretty cool that in Michigan we have that kind of animal. And do you know how many quills they have?

Eric
1 billion?

Kelsey
About about 30,000.

Eric
I mean, that's still a lot of quills. It's not a billion, but that's a lot of quills.

Kelsey
Do you imagine counting like, who counted the average number of quills on a porcupine? Like what happens if you lost count at 15,000?

Eric
Well, it's an average, right? So it's not even like one that you have to count. It's a bunch of them that you have to count. I mean, if it was me, I would probably set up some sort of a small containerized system where I would do like ten quills at a time into a single thing, and I would just go through and do that until I got to 30,000. And that way if I lost count, you know, I'd have them set up, like maybe those ten quills in each one in rows of ten or rows of 100 maybe in this case, I mean, I could I could come up with a good experiment, I think, or a good not experiment, but a good methodology for porcupine quill counting. But what exactly are quills?

Kelsey
That's a great question. So quills are actually modified hairs with a spongy core that are tipped with a very sharp backwards facing barb. So I have never tangled with a porcupine, but I've heard of many people's dogs tangling with porcupines and getting those quills out can be tough. And that's.

Eric
I've seen some of those dogs in real life.

Kelsey
Yes. And so they have backwards facing barbs, kind of like a fish hook. And it's difficult to pull those out.

Eric
I saw a dog one time. A porcupine had died. I think it got hit by like a snowplow or something. This would have been up around Torch Lake area. And the dog had dug down into the snow because it could smell something dead. And then it was like trying to pull out. So the porcupine wasn't even trying to defend itself. It was already dead. But this dog was like, oh, I'm going to pull out this dead thing. And so, yeah, it got a tremendously huge face full of quills.

Kelsey
Yeah. And I can imagine that would probably be pretty easy to do, because the quills are actually loosely rooted in their skin, which allows them to detach easily. So porcupines don't throw their quills, they just kind of back up into whatever it is.

Eric
Not Pokemon porcupine.

Kelsey
Yes, yes. So they do not throw those quills. If you are looking to potentially see a porcupine or avoid a porcupine, depending on, you know, your activities, we currently have them in the Michigan's Upper Peninsula and the northern part of the Lower Peninsula. I've actually seen them, I would say central Michigan. I've seen them in Montcalm County, kind of waddling around.

Eric
Yeah. The furthest south I have seen one is probably Manistee or like Ludington area.

Kelsey
Yeah. So they're around and they like a broad variety of habitats. So pretty much as long as they have some trees somewhere.

Eric
What are they eating?

Kelsey
They love to eat plants. So they are strictly herbivores, meaning that they only eat the—well, it really depends on the time of year.

Eric
Do they eat pine?

Kelsey
Yes they do.

Kelsey
So they are a porcupine?

Kelsey
Yes, but they also eat a lot of other species. So in spring and summer they're looking at eating the buds and young leaves of your birch, your aspen, cottonwood and willow. And then they kind of shift. So in autumn, this time of year, they're feeding increases. Like most mammals this time of year they're looking to bulk up and they start switching to acorns and beech nuts. But with porcupines, they actually prefer to eat their buffet in the tree. So they seek out acorns and beech nuts that have not fallen to the ground yet.

Eric
I imagine those big rodent teeth really come in handy for those acorns.

Kelsey
Definitely. And then in winter, that's when they're looking at eating that inner bark of the spruce and birch and hemlocks, which are your conifers. And because they eat all vegetable matter, vegetables are low in sodium, which also means that porcupines crave salt. And the reason they crave salt is because they need that additional sodium in their blood to balance out the cell potassium levels.

Eric
So they're so basically they're probably along the side of the roadway in the wintertime, licking salt from the salt trucks.

Kelsey
Yes, 100%. So in winter you're likely going to see them along the highways and roads, which is unfortunately why they end up roadkill quite often.

Eric
And dug up by dogs that get quills in their face.

Kelsey
Yes, because they are literally licking the road. This also results in some human conflict as well, so they seek out sources of salt, which may include the glue which bonds plywood together, and human perspiration on tools. So if you leave your yard rake out or anything like that and come back in the spring and there's no longer a handle, it's because it was salty.

Eric
Wow. So they're just like.

Kelsey
They're just gnawing away.

Eric
Chewing it up.

Kelsey
Yep. Porcupines are arboreal species. So like we said you're going to find them in trees most of the time. Which also means they were adapted for life in the trees. So they have really long claws and unique footpads that have like a pebbly surface, which increases their surface area and friction when they're climbing up and down those tree trunks.

Eric
Pebble pads.

Kelsey
Despite these adaptations, they have porcupines do fall from trees.

Eric
So do squirrels! I've seen it.

Kelsey
Yeah?

Eric
Yeah.

Kelsey
Well, I'm guessing a squirrel probably has a better time of it, since a porcupine can force its own quills into its skin.

Eric
Ow, yeah, that would kind of be not great.

Kelsey
But good news for them is the quills do have a natural antibiotic that can help prevent bacterial growth, but self-inflicted deaths do occur. So like I said, they're nocturnal species, which means they're mostly active at night. So during the day they like to sleep in the trees, in hollow logs, or sometimes among rocks. Up in the tree, they will create almost a very like rudimentary bird nest. So if you're walking around in the woods and you see it almost looks like a half put together bird nest of sticks, like a platform of sticks, it's very possible that you have a porcupine. Breeding for porcupines occurs in October and November, so we are getting close to that time of year when they're going to be coming together for that. And gestation for porcupines is 210 days, which is a really long time for a rodent. Same, you know, same grouping as squirrels and mice. On average, they only have one baby a year.

Eric
I can understand why.

Kelsey
Right. And baby porcupines when they're born, they actually their quill—so actually they have quills but they're soft and flexible when they're born.

Eric
So really almost more like a hedgehog kind of a deal.

Kelsey
I would say even a hedgehog would probably be sharper than a baby porcupine.

Eric
Really?

Kelsey
I mean, I haven't field tested it, but that's just my guess.

Eric
Okay.

Kelsey
But within a few hours of the quills being exposed to air, they harden up and dry and then they're fully protected from predators, so they're only soft and cuddly for a few hours.

Eric
And you're like, oh, this thing is suddenly very angry feeling.

Kelsey
Yes. And porcupine babies are pretty independent, relatively quick. So they only hang out with their mother for 5 to 6 months.

Eric
But what do they call porcupine babies?

Kelsey
Let's talk about that right after this.

Speaker
There are many camping and lodging opportunities available in Michigan state parks. When you choose state park campgrounds, you get more than just a campsite. State parks offer a diverse range of recreational opportunities, including hands on instructional classes, nature programs, places to fish, boat launches, family-friendly events and much more. Reservations can be made six months in advance, so why wait? Visit MIDNRreservations.com or call 1-800-44-PARKS to make a reservation.

*Transition music

Kelsey
Now is your opportunity to win a WildTalk podcast mug. As a thank you to our listeners will be giving away a couple mugs every episode. Our winners this month are Michael Clapp-Saddle, and Jill Martin. They answered the question; what is Michigan's largest rodent? And the answer was the North American beaver. To be entered in to the drawing this month, test your wildlife knowledge in answer our wildlife quiz question. This month's question is; what is a baby porcupine called?

Eric
A porc-u-sapling?

Kelsey
Email your name and answer to DNR-Wildlife@michigan.gov to be entered in for a chance to win a mug. Be sure to include the subject line as 'mug me' and submit your answer by September 15th. Will announce winners and the answer on next month's episode, so be sure to listen in and see if you've won. And for the next quiz question. Good luck everyone!

Speaker
Michigan conservation officers are working hard to protect and keep the outdoors safe for current and future generations. If you witness a natural resources violation, you can call or text the Report All Poaching Hotline 24 hours a day at 1-800-292-7800, or fill out the complaint form available at michigan.gov/RAP. If you would like more information on becoming a Conservation Officer, click on become a CO at michigan.gov/conservationofficers.

Kelsey
And that is a wrap for my first episode. Remember, if you have questions about wildlife or hunting, you can call (517) 284-9453 or email DNR-Wildlife@michigan.gov. We'll see you back here in October.

Speaker
This has been the WildTalk podcast, your monthly podcast airing the first of each month in offering insights into the world of wildlife across the state of Michigan. You can reach the Wildlife Division at (517) 284-9453 or DNR-Wildlife@michigan.gov.